Triangulation
Triangles show up in relationships all over the place. In this episode Libby discusses triangulation, what it is, common ways it can show up in polyamory, and whether triangulation can harm or help.
Transcript
And, and I guess I wanna like start there actually to say that triangulation is not always bad. We hear about how it's bad and we hear about how we're not supposed to do it. I think a lot, especially in polyamory circles, and I do wanna talk about that, but I wanna say from the get go that triangulation is not inherently bad.
It's kind of funny that I haven't talked about triangulation on this podcast yet, given that I'm in a triad, like I'm literally in a triad. I'm literally in a three person relationship, , and I have a lot to say about triangulation and I'm so excited to talk about it with you today. So first of all, what the heck am I talking about? What is triangulation? Triangulation was defined, I believe, by psychologist Murray Bowen. Murray Bowen was one of the originators of family systems theory, and Bowen was one of the first people to talk about triangulation. And, and he would talk about triangulation in families. You know, one of the things that he said was that two person emotional system is inherently unstable. And so if it becomes stressed in any kind of way, it is gonna naturally form itself into a three person system or a triangle.
And, you know, again, he would talk about how this shows up in families. Like one parent in one kid might form an alliance against a third parent, or a child can actually be like a stabilizing force for two parents who are unstable. And, and, and some of this is kind of, eh, iffy, but, but it's a place where it shows up the most. And so what he says in his work is that a third party can be a stabilizing force or a destabilizing force. And you know, and I guess I wanna like start there actually to say that triangulation is not always bad. We hear about how it's bad and we hear about how we're not supposed to do it. I think a lot, especially in polyamory circles, and I do wanna talk about that, but I wanna say from the get go that triangulation is not inherently bad.
And in fact can actually be good. And I wanna talk about that too. But now I'm gonna talk about how it can often show up in polyamorous or non-monogamous spaces because while I actually don't at all think triangulation is unique to polyamory or non-monogamy, you know, it can definitely show up in workplaces, it can show up in families, it can show up at school, it can show up in all in friend groups, all different kinds of spaces because I think it is actually really natural to do. I do think it shows up a lot in polyamory and it can create a lot of pitfalls. So here are the ones that I see the most commonly, number one, and I do think this actually is the number one thing that happens in terms of triangulation and polyamorous spaces, is venting to one partner about another partner.
I, I wanna say upfront that it makes sense that this happens. I actually don't think that this is inherently bad. I think it's really natural to do, and I think this is especially natural to do if the only people you tend to confide in are romantic or sexual partners. And I don't even wanna say this is always bad, but it can be tricky and it can create problems. One of the things it can do is it can create a feeling of sides or adversity. Even if there isn't a desire to do that it can even create an impression that a relationship isn't in a good place when it is. Because sometimes you'll do the complaining when something isn't feeling good, but then you might not share when things are good or the positive things because we have a negativity bias. So here's just an example of how like venting about one partner to the other partner can go sideways.
But there are just like so many examples of this. So here's my fictitious couple. Jay and Alex, their partners. And Jay is always complaining to Alex about his other partner, Leticia, who he's married to. He complains that she's emotional, that she's anxious and like he feels like he's constantly trying to work around her emotions and, and Alex like comforts Jay hold space for him. Maybe even Alex thinks, oh, well I don't wanna be like that. I wanna be the good partner. And again, that can set things up for comparison. Another thing that Alex could think is, gosh, Jay seems really unhappy with his wife. Maybe they're gonna break up. Oh, and what will that mean for me? I mean, maybe Alex might want that. Maybe Alex might want more time with Jay. Maybe they wanna be Jay's like primary partner or something like that.
Or maybe Alex doesn't want Jay to be single because it actually works for them and their relationship for Jay to be partnered with someone else. So it might not feel good. Also, it could lead Alex to wonder like, oh, if Jay is venting about his wife to me, does Jay vent about me to his wife when I am emotional and anxious? Like, is that a safe thing for me to feel? You get the idea. Another problem with venting about one partner to another partner is that then it can create like sour feelings between those two partners without it being actually anything between them. And that that kind of just doesn't set people up to have a successful metamora relationship. So that's one example. Another example of where triangulation can show up in polyamory is where you're trying to mend fences between your two partners, like as the hinge partner or even if you have two partners and they're dating each other or whatever.
So in the example I'll give here Marla has two partners, Dell and Alice, and they have a kitchen table dynamic. But sometimes Dell and Alice's communication connection is a little strained. Dell tends to be more quiet and more reserved and careful with what they say, whereas Alice is pretty bold and sometimes messy in ways that really trigger Dell. But Dell doesn't ever confront Alice about this. Dell just complains about it sometimes to Marla. And then Marla can see clearly that Alice is getting on Dell's nerves sometimes when they're all three of them together. So what Marla may do is put herself in the position of explaining Alice's behavior, Alice's communication to Dell to help Dell see Alice's behavior more positively. Or she might give Alice feedback about how Dell is feeling about her in hopes that Alice will be more considerate and thoughtful.
So Marla's basically stepping in here and kind of managing their communication managing their relationship because of the two of them are not communicating directly with each other and their communication styles are so different. And again, I I'm not gonna say that this is always a problem, but sometimes what you end up doing in that situation is you end up doing for these other two people what they are not asking for. And also in a way that actually doesn't help them do their own work here, . But there are times where this is supportive, where it actually is helpful to have a third person step in and say, Hey, like this person, I know they were coming across as a jerk, but they didn't really mean it. Or, Hey, you may not realize this, but this person actually didn't like what you said. There are times when it's supportive and there are times when it's not.
And again, it's, it's a little just, it's just tricky. And by the way, a flavor of this can also show up when you actually don't wanna help mend fences, but where you are just kind of finding yourself being the go-between for two people who are struggling to get along or communicate effectively and you're like stuck in the middle because you just don't want things to fall apart. And you notice that like they do if you don't step in. So an example would be like Ted and Roy are together, they're in a relationship and they're also both dating Cecilia, but Ted and Roy's communication with each other is just so unclear, so non-functional. So they often miss each other. They often misunderstand each other. And Cecilia, because she's hearing both of them ends up making a lot of connections for them that they weren't making.
And you know, she asks a lot of really good clarifying questions of both of them and then kind of clearly communicates with both of them and kind of fixes everything and smooths everything out. But it's a lot of overworking on her part. And again, this can be a stabilizing thing for Ted and Roy, but it can also be like exhausting for Cecilia to be in that role and to feel like she's gotta be like constantly vigilant with these other two people and kind of again, kind of in this managing role with them, which doesn't let her relax and be in the relationship. So another place where I see triangulation is just straight up ganging up on a partner. And again, this can happen like accidentally or this can happen on purpose. So in the example I'm gonna give here, there's Sal and they have concerns about their partner, Levi's partner Mel.
Okay, so like Sal is dating Levi, Levi is dating Mel and Sal doesn't like Mel, but also Sal is concerned about how Mel is treating Levi. And so Sal then talks to another one of Mel's partners, Ash about this. And Ash also doesn't like Levi and shares Sal's concerns about how good that is for Mel. And again, this can happen like incidentally, you're just kind of talking and you're venting and you're talking about how you're feeling and then suddenly you formed this alliance against a third person and it can, it can feel really good to be in that alliance because you agree on something like you, you have a shared feeling. And so it can actually sometimes bring you closer. But then the other problem there is that then you can end up using the force of the two of you to push that third person in a way that can really not feel good or relational to them.
Another place where I see triangulation being a problem is violating privacy, just straight up violating privacy. So some types of triangulation can simply just result in information being shared that people might not want shared with certain other people. And you know, there are all kinds of ways that sharing information between partners can feel violating, can feel like you didn't get my consent to share that and now I feel really violated that this other person knows this thing without me telling them. And again, here's an example that just came up for me with one of my former Metamours. We, we didn't have much of a relationship with each other and I just really didn't like the idea of her getting to know things about my life through my partner because the things that I was telling my partner about my life were intimate things about, you know, what I was going through, what I was thinking, what was happening for me and for her to know those things too felt to me like it was creating an intimacy that hadn't been earned relationally between us.
So I really didn't like it when that happened. The last triangulation thing that I will bring up is pitting one partner against the other. This is something that I also see sometimes, and again, it can be done unintentionally or intentionally. I think mostly it's unintentional. I talked about this in my hinges episode and the example I used there is like say Ori is dating Laura and Jason and she is their only partner, but she's dating both of them. And whenever Laura wants to make plans with Ori and there's a conflict because there's something that she's already planned with Jason, Ori doesn't take responsibility for that. Instead of saying, oh, I've got these other plans that I'm really excited about, she blames Jason for why she has to say no to Laura and vice versa. If she has plans with Laura and Jason wants to spend time with her again, she'll say, well, I wish I could, but I'm sorry I have to spend time with this partner.
'Cause I promised them because Ori is not taking responsibility for her choices of how to spend her time. Jason and Laura can both end up presenting the other for taking up Laura's time. This can also happen with agreements. If there's like an agreement between two partners in a V and then the third partner in that V doesn't like that agreement or finds it imposing in some kind of way, then that hinge partner can just blame their other partner for the agreement that they have to keep rather than sort of owning that this is what they want and it's what it's important to them too. You can also end up pitting one partner against the other by sharing like what that partner has said about the other partner. Like if you were to say, oh yeah, by the way my other partner just really doesn't like you and like, but sharing that on their behalf without their consent.
And again, the intentionally pitting one partner against the other is a really common abuse tactic to keep people isolated from each other. And so if you're ever in a situation where someone is talking to you about your other partner in ways that it doesn't really seem like they would want to be communicated about in that way, I would, I would raise like at least a yellow flag, maybe an orange flag about that. And I, it might, I might take that as a cue to like not let that triangulation continue and directly communicate with my metamor. Now all of these scenarios are not things I generally recommend because I think these types of triangulation can get messy and frustrating and sometimes extremely hurtful. And I mean, there are people who observe these different triangulation dynamics in polyamorous communities and make the decision that they just aren't going to talk about anybody else to anybody else.
They're not gonna talk about their relationships with any outside people. It's just going to be between them and the other person. And again, this can show up even in monogamous relationships where it's like, I'm not gonna talk about my relationship outside of my relationship with other people. And you know, certainly you do need to use discernment and boundaries when deciding when to whom and how much to talk about the other people you're in relationship with. The most common problems I've seen around triangulation are where people just aren't thoughtful or discerning about what they say or who they're saying it to. And the people listening are also not thoughtful or discerning about whether they're the right person to hear what's being said to them. So I mean, having respectful boundaries is also essential, especially when like you're in this position where you wanna try to like help to people who may not be communicating effectively with each other.
The reason why I say boundaries is because often it's not actually respectful or supportive to communicate on behalf of other people, especially if they have not asked you to do so explicitly. But sometimes even if they have . And also of course if you are speaking for someone else, you might not communicate what they would actually want communicated or even what's actually true for them. And of course, of course, of course ganging up is a power over way of relating that I personally find really hurtful. Again, even if it's unintentional, it can be coercive and pressuring, although in certain dire situations such as like when someone has an out of control substance abuse problem, that kind of triangulation might be an appropriate move. But for the most part I don't recommend it. However, I don't think you just shouldn't talk to anyone about your relationship.
I believe we are not meant to exist exclusively in a series of isolated diads. Like I actually agree with Murray Bowen that dyads are not that stable of a relationship all on their own. I think we exist in communities, we exist in polycules, we exist in families. So I think it's totally reasonable and functional to seek support outside a dyadic pair for yourself as an individual as well as for your relationship as a whole. I think it's also like, just totally normal and natural to care about the relationships the people you love are in with other people and it's normal and natural to want to support them in those other relationships. Like it, it just makes sense. And also it can be really healing and supportive to have people outside of a relationship you're in, in just hear what's happening for you, just bear witness to it.
Just hold space with non-judgment and even it can feel really, really useful to have someone share their perspective and even offer some advice. Plus keeping everything within the diadic relationship rather than seeking support outside of it is one way that abusive dynamics can be perpetuated. Sometimes it's only having what's happening within our relationships known by others and getting their perspective that we can see more clearly when things are actually harmful or just not normal . So how can we do triangulation in a way that is supportive to our relationships rather than harmful? Well, here's an easy one. , this is gonna sound like plugging my work, but it's really not. But like seriously, couples therapy, couples coaching is a wonderful example of positive triangulation that is a third party that can support a dyadic relationship in a way that is really healthy and and, and can be really, really, really, really helpful.
But why, what is it about having a coach or a therapist that is better than having it be just someone in your relational ecosystem? And, and of course I'm not gonna say it's better, okay, but why does it work? So one reason it can work really well is that the person in the therapist or coach role has a clearly defined role. Their role is to support the couple in their process. A good therapist or coach is going to have really, really good boundaries about what is their business, what belongs to them and what doesn't. And of course it's easier to have those boundaries because you're outside of the system, you don't exist within it. And lastly, there's no agenda, or at least there shouldn't be. I I actually know lots of therapists and coaches who sometimes do find their own agenda creeping in when they're working with their clients. But ideally a coach or a therapist working with you has no agenda for you, no goals for you that you don't have for yourself.
Now all that being said, I don't think you have to hire a coach or a couple's therapist to have good triangulation and to get support for your relationship. And I know that I'm saying this as a professional coach, but like, I really don't think everyone needs this. I think you can have third parties such as friends such as family members, and yes, even other partners who can fill this role of stabilizing the dyad. Like I really think that's the whole point of being in community. And when I think about even like a marriage ceremony, when people stand up and they get married, oftentimes part of a marriage ceremony is will this community hold and support this couple in their love? And people usually say, I will. And then they don't actually . But I really, I really, actually, what I want more than anything actually is for communities and polycules and families to support those diadic relationships within those communities.
But there need to be some guidelines on how to do that well. So number one, I've already mentioned it, practice discernment. Not everyone is the right person to vent to about every situation. If you have a partner who is say, like struggling with being the less established partner, it's probably not a good idea to vent about your more established partner to them. That's probably gonna be really hurtful or hard for them to hear. Or if they're like super insecure and have a lot of jealousy, they might even like be in that position of hoping that you'll break up. So that's not a kind place to put them. Also, not everyone has appropriate boundaries or is good at respecting privacy around the information that they receive. So like if you know someone has a tendency to gossip it in ways that don't respect the confidences that you're sharing, that person might not be the right person to share what's going on with you.
Also, if you can't trust that person not to use that information for their own agenda, I wouldn't talk to that person. And again, it's, it's not even a matter of them intentionally doing that. It's putting them in the position that they, that doesn't set them up for success. And lastly, you know, if you don't have any people to talk to outside of people who are your partners, it's good to start cultivating those people. Like I would join a support group or attend a local munch or a meetup and start to cultivate a network of people who can be there for you and who you can be there for, but with a little bit of distance from the situation. So second thing, after discernment, check your intentions. This is what Julianne Taylor Shore would call doing a u-turn. Like, look at yourself. Why are you sharing this?
Why are you reaching out and pulling in a third party? Are you hoping to win someone to your side or are you trying to have someone else give you ammunition for your perspective or point of view in a conflict? 'cause That's not cool. Are you owning your own role in whatever is happening? Are you playing any of the roles in the drama triangle? Are you being the victim or the villain or the hero in the story? Are you betraying someone else's confidence in a way that you know would make them feel violated? And are you doing that without care for how that's gonna feel for them? And also, are you stepping into a situation where you don't belong? Are you trying to do something for other people instead of letting them own what is theirs, even if it means them falling on their face?
Number three, get consent from the listener before you share stuff. This is so important. It's really important that you make sure that you ask first and that you give them the chance to say no if they don't want to hear about what's going on in your relationship. Make sure also that you've communicated what you want their role to be. Do you want them to be a non-judgmental listener? Do you want them to give support? Do you want them to offer their reflections? Are you looking for advice? Are you looking for some like request to be met? Are you looking for some help? And also be clear about what you don't want from them. Like, Hey, please don't think I'm asking you to take sides. Please keep this and this and this confidential. It's really important that you don't share it. And again, give that upfront before you share the thing.
It's actually like not cool to share with someone a juicy secret and then tell them that they can't tell anybody. Like, that's not like . That's like closing the barn doors after you've let the horses out. It's much better to be like, Hey, I've got a big secret to share. It might be hard for you to hold. Can you hold it? And then if you're the listener, make sure that you are clear with yourself on what your role is and what you're comfortable with. And that you can actually do what the listener is asking of you. Like if you know that you can't hear about their partner without feeling a whole ton of judgment and they need you to listen non-judgmentally, maybe you should say no to hearing . Also, if they don't want you to share with anyone, will you really be able to honor that?
Or will you be able to mostly share with no one, but you'll really need to tell like one or two people. 'cause You just won't be able to stop yourself. Like you should know yourself pretty well. If you are not gonna be able to hold it and the person really needs you to hold it, then maybe you're not the person to share with. Also, are you going to be able to not give advice if that is not what they want? Or if they haven't explicitly said that it's okay, are you just gonna be able to listen with acceptance and let them go on their own journey and let things unfold how they're going to unfold? Also, be clear on your own boundaries. Like is this okay for you to hear or will it be harmful to you in some way to hold it? Do you not wanna have a yucky story about someone else's partner?
Maybe you don't wanna hold that because you wanna think well of that person. These are just some examples. Also, be aware of your intentions. Do you notice an agenda showing up for you? Because if you do notice that it might be good to bow out of being in the role of that third party. Just as an example. Like imagine you can't hear your best friend complain about her wife without feeling super sad and annoyed that she's complaining because you think her wife is great. Or maybe you're secretly gonna hope that they're gonna break up because you'd like to date her wife. And because she's with your friend, she's off limits in your mind. You know, if this is just like this, just an example, but like there are so many examples where you just might not be neutral enough of a person to be that third person to hold that information.
And it's really important that you be honest with yourself and that you be honest with the person who's talking to you. Okay? To sum up, uncareful triangulation can wreak havoc on your relationships, especially in complicated relational systems like polyamorous relationships, polycules, non-monogamous communities, et cetera. Now, some people address this problem just by closing off talking about anyone to anyone else. But it's my belief that that has limitations that can be harmful. I also just think it makes a lot of sense to seek outside support and outside perspectives. And also, I agree with Murray Bowen that triangles can be very stabilizing structures. It's just important to use discernment boundaries, check your intentions and make sure everyone is being careful and caring in how they interact. So while I do fully support going forth and triangulating, please triangulate responsibly.
