Libby Plus One: Mono-Poly and NRE
Libby is joined by a plus one in this special bonus episode. In it Libby and her guest provide advice to an anonymous post on Reddit in r/polyamory. This post is both about NRE and also being in a mono-poly hierarchical partnership.
Transcript
Libby:
So, I mean, it sounds like, you know, husband's freaking out about it. Wife is also freaking out about it. She feels guilty. Yeah. And why does she feel guilty?
Drew:
Because she feels like she's expected to feel something that she's not feeling right now for her husband.
Libby:
So if you listen to the intro, you might have noticed there's another voice on this episode. So if you're a long time listener to my show, this episode will be a little different for you. I recorded this episode with a special guest and in this episode, we together comment and give advice in response to an anonymous post that we found on Reddit together.
Libby:
I had this idea that I'd really like to bring in guests periodically down my show, because I have the fortune of knowing so many really brilliant and lovely people. And they have shaped how I think. And I wanted to be able to share their wisdom and perspective with you just in case you get tired of hearing only my voice on these episodes. Now, if you love the format of my regular episodes, don't worry. I will continue to do those. And if you hate these more conversational podcast formats, feel free to skip this one. I plan on doing these conversations only about once a month or so. And we will for now be using the format of giving advice to anonymous posters on Reddit. And I will link to the original post in the show notes. So without further ado here is the first making polyamory work segment of our slash making polyamory work. Would you like to introduce yourself by the way? Sure. Cuz people know who I am, but who are you?
Drew:
Yeah, I'm, I'm Drew, I'm a polyamorous dad. I'm a progressive activist. Digital programmer. I am Libby's husband. We've been married for about eight years and I am partner too, to cure. We've been together almost three or three years.
Libby:
Okay. Mm-hmm, so we're gonna start this off with a post that you found, right? Mm-Hmm, and it's on Reddit. And since you found it, I'm gonna read it. And by the way, we'll have a link to each of the Reddit threads on, in the show notes. If you wanna look and see what other people's advice was now, this, this post came out about a month ago and here's what it says. It says, hi, guys, just need to get this off my chest and ask for some advice for me, a mono husband with a poly wife, for some context. So my wife and I have been together for six years, married for four, about six months ago. She said like she, she said that she feels like she's always been poly, but didn't wanna try it due to the stigma, et cetera. Eventually, after many tears from both of us, we agreed that she can see someone else on the side with both of us having completely open and honest communication about anything that happens.
Libby:
She said she won't tell me anything about them that I don't want hear. And they won't do anything that I'm not comfortable with. He remains a completely separate entity from our marriage, after many failed dates. She has found another guy who, from what I've gathered is a very respectful of us and knows his boundaries. Ah that's oh, he knows his boundaries. Ah, okay, well, we'll get there while I'm still not at all. Okay. With her being romantically involved with someone else, she has been nothing but reassuring. And I am trying my best to understand her point of view and accept it. She and I are currently both receiving counseling to help us through this. Since we both take our marriage very seriously, while all of this is very emotionally draining. We both feel as though I have become a better husband. And she has told me that she is grateful and thankful I haven't left her and that I am letting her be herself.
Libby:
She still is. And always has been an affectionate and loving wife who has never failed to make me feel secure, wanted and loved. However, a couple of days ago we encountered a new hurdle. She had a panic attack, which was triggered by the fact that because her relationship with the other guy still new, it's more exciting than ours. And she wants to spend more time with him. She described it as our marriage being a slow burning fire. That is well established in sustaining while this new relationship is like a brighter, bigger bonfire that she is more attracted to. She feels guilty about this because she doesn't want to feel that way since it is me. She wants to start a family with and grow old with however hearing this just feeds into my greatest fear of her leaving me because she doesn't love me anymore. So my questions are, what are some ways a mono husband can deal with this whole poly situation? How do I deal with the jealousy involved? Despite my wife's constant reassurance that I don't have to be jealous. And is that phase of wanting more from the other guy just phase that will eventually iron itself out. Thank you. In advance for listening and any advice given. Okay.
Drew:
Well, first of all, I would say the most likely thing is yeah, we'll just iron itself all out in some ways, like sure. It is all
Libby:
Well, wait, wait, that's where you're gonna start. Yeah.
Drew:
I mean, that's, that's, that's what this person really, I think needs, needs to hear and understand is that like what's, what she's going through now is
Libby:
NRE
Drew:
It's but it's, it's important. And I think that's what I'll get to later. Is it, it it's really important to take it seriously. It's it is a serious change for her in that relationship. Mm-Hmm it has to be treated as such, but it also is probably not going to define what they say they want. Right. Which is a, a lifelong relationship, which, you know, when she describes she's, she's worried about the fact that their, their relationship's a slow burning fire that is well established and sustaining. Mm. That sounds, that sounds like, yeah, exactly what you want for growing old together. Mm mm-hmm. In the end, a, a fast burning fire that has you having panic attacks is probably not where you want to build your, your life
Libby:
Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting that you see it that way. I mean, I, I, I see it that way too, to a certain extent it's worth saying, I didn't say this up front, but the, these, this couple they're 25 and 30, so they're young than us by a decade or more. Yeah. NRA is a temporary state. It can last anywhere from six months to two Years.
Drew:
Just under three years just under
Libby:
Really. Oh, okay. Uh I, I think it can last longer than two years under certain circumstances, but for the most part, if this NRA has been like scientifically studied and it has been shown that eventually it just, the average that it wears off is about 18 months. And this is because if you listen to my Comcast episode on NRA, this is a physiological state. Like it's not just something that you can wish away or think away or anything. It's something that is happening to your body is a bombardment of chemicals that your body gets bombarded with. And, and there's wears itself out at a certain point. Like you just, you just run out of those chemicals. I think. So I guess that's the first thing to say, is that yeah, it, it, it is you're right. It's a temporary state. And yet I think when you're 25, which she is, we were just talking about this last night, you know, when you felt that feeling. Not very often. Yeah. You know, when it's still a relatively new feeling to you. I think that that can feel quite you have a different context. Yeah.
Drew:
Well, I think, I think a lot of people also have that idea of there's the one. And then when you meet two people who are definitely both the one, then you're like, oh no, there was the two. And then if you keep along that path, like you end up being like, oh yes, there's the seven, the seven items and, and the nine dwarves, or, you know, whatever, sorry. Or the nine you that the, you know, and, and that, that idea starts to fall apart. Right. Right.
Libby:
Well, well, and also, I mean, speaking only for myself, I have definitely felt NRE for people that I cannot have an actual, sustainable long-term relationship with. Yeah. Like there are people that I get totally Twitter paid about. And then like, I get to know them a little bit and I'm like, well, I'm still in love with you, but our lives aren't compatible. I, I think that's an important thing that a lot of people don't really think about when they think about falling in love, they think falling in love is somehow like a ancient primal, knowing that tells you that you're compatible with somebody for the rest of your life. And I think those things are completely two, two totally separate things that can sometimes line up nicely together. You can fall in love with somebody and they're compatible with your life. But I think you can fall in love with people who, yeah. You can't have a compatibility with. Well,
Drew:
And that, again, like I'm talking about with her, her relationship, that needs to be valued too. Like even if it doesn't last, even if it's not the basis of a long sustained relationship, it's still valuable. Even, even if it doesn't even if it, the it's never doesn't work out to have NRA crushing on somebody, that's a, that's a kind of a valuable social interaction that needs, needs to be, you know, understood and thought about. And you, you can and made space for, yeah, you can, you can work it into your vision of what your life is. The, you know, the one vision is just like this one thing will take up everything and it's so unrealistic because it only, of course it only includes romantic for relationships. When people think about it, when in reality, they have so many other important relationships they're gonna have in their life.
Libby:
Right. So, I mean, if I'm hearing you, right, what you're saying is that it's important that this be on the pallet of things that you get to experience, even in the context of a long term romantic relationship and it, and when you're coloring with that palette, it's enriching your whole life. And that doesn't mean it has to be. It's like, if you divorce yourself from this framework of, if I'm in love, then that person has some kind of automatic elevated status in my like overall life plan. If I can just say, oh, this is a wonderful feeling. Right. And it enriches my life and it enriches. And because it enriches partner's life, maybe it can enrich my life too, or maybe it won't, maybe I can just like, appreciate it, that they're having it. And that it's important to them, but that doesn't have to take on any greater meaning.
Libby:
You know, when we're in a long term relationship with someone in this case of marriage, we have sort of expectations. I think a lot of times about how that's gonna go and what that's gonna be. And I'm here to tell you, you will be disappointed yeah. At some point, yeah. At some point you will be disappointed, especially if your expectations weren't made explicit, but even if they were yeah. Like even if you made agreements around what you could expect and not expect from your relationship. Yeah. Sometimes you have expectations in your expectations will change. Yeah. And also sometimes you'll set expectations. Your partner will agree to them and then what they need is gonna change. Yeah. I feel like if you can't pivot, then you're gonna have problems. Right. You're gonna have a hard time. I think that I read somewhere, this really nice quote, which was just, I mean, you've heard the quote before, like the only constant is change, but long term relationships that's especially true. The only thing that's consistent about long term relationships I think is change. And I think that's something you gotta accept. And that is part of the, both the beauty and the challenge of a long term relationship. You know, she had a panic attack triggered by the fact that her relationship is more exciting. So, I mean, it sounds like, you know, husband's freaking out about it. Wife is also freaking out about it. She feels guilty. Yeah. And why does she feel guilty?
Drew:
Because she feels like she's expected to feel something that she's not feeling right now for her husband. Oh,
Libby:
Oh, I don't know. I think that she feels guilty because her husband did not want this. Oh yeah. He's monogamous. She's polyamorous and she's always wanted to be poly, but didn't wanna try it due to the stigma. That's the first thing the husband said, and this is another, another piece of, the thing that can happen in, in long term relationships sometimes what you think you're getting and what your partner has told you that you're getting turns out to not be what you're getting. He thought he was marrying someone who was monogamous. She kept that under wraps that she really was polyamorous. And she always wanted to be that. And now after six years together, she's like, no, I have To be that. Like, if I'm looking at the, and, and, and I wanna just say, that's, there's a legitimacy to that also. But I, I wanna get to also why it's complicated, but like, there's a legitimacy to, I realize this is important to me. And when I look at the whole rest of my life, if I'm gonna spend the whole rest of my life, never fulfilling this part of myself, then I might feel like I'm missing out. Like I got I. Right. But then the husband, I mean, I can't imagine how that would feel if he was like, I signed again to go back to the expectations. I signed up to be with someone who is only gonna be with me. Right. And now I'm not, that's not what I'm getting anymore. I'm disappointed. I'm not okay. I'm jealous.
Drew:
Well, it's also their, I mean, their agreement thats essentially was a don't ask. Don't tell,
Libby:
Is that how you read it? That's interesting. Well, but she, she said she won completely open, honest communication about anything that happens.
Drew:
Yeah. But she doesn't wanna tell me anything about them. I don't want to hear, they won't do anything. I'm not comfortable. He remains completely as a separate entity. I mean,
Libby:
I, I would describe that as parallel poly.
Drew:
Right. I, myself, you know, I don't, you know, different things work for different people. Yeah. Like I'm always skeptical of the idea that something is gonna remain completely separate and, and here again, it, it didn't, you know? Yeah. She is. She's definitely having, not simply strong feelings for this guy, but it's bringing up insecurities about how she feels in the marriage. Right. And guilt. And so that stuff could not be isolated. It could not be fully parallel.
Libby:
Well, well, sure. I mean
New Speaker:
Because she's a person this stuff is her it's gonna change her.
Libby:
Right.
New Speaker:
Right. Well, and I mean, that's why I've, I mean, I I've said we aren't these little islands. Right.
Drew:
Mm-Hmm.
New Speaker:
And I think you can operate parallel polyamory. And I think that's possible to a certain extent, but yeah. To have this expectation that what's happening over here, isn't gonna impact what's happening over there. I think that's an unreasonable.
Drew:
Why would you, you be doing it? If it wasn't going to let's think about some similar cases, right. Where couples they're like one partner says, I really just need to go and have sex with other people. Yeah. I that's the thing that I deeply need, obviously, it was so important to them that they, it bring it up in their marriage and negotiate that mm-hmm and then it happens. And let's, let's say even just best case scenario. Now they're getting something that it obviously was really important to them. They really needed mm-hmm that's gonna change life.
Libby:
I don't like the phrase really needed. I, but I understand what
Drew:
You're saying. It was, it was something that was so, so important to them. And now they're getting it like that, them living a life where now that they're getting that thing means they're going to be living a different life. They'll be possibly a different person. It's gonna go back and affect the,
Libby:
And again, it's gonna change maybe for the better, but yeah. But it's gonna change you. Yeah. How many times have we been in situations where like we thought we were getting something with each other and then it wasn't what we thought. I mean, so many times the thing that I sort of wanna pick apart here, I mean, so, you know, yes. NRA is temporary. Yes. You know, they'll probably roll through this, but I worry that they're, that this, that this guy is also that this couple isn't necessarily, I mean, it sounds like they're going to counseling, which yay. Yeah. Counseling is good. Having an outside person support you through. This is really good. Hopefully that this person is non-monogamy affirming so that, you know, because one, one thing I'm sort of noticing here is sort of a power dynamic between the husband and the wife, where she feels really grateful.
Libby:
Hasn't left her. Yeah. And that he's letting her be herself. Right. And she's having a panic attack and feeling super guilty because she's falling in love with somebody that says to me, like, she's really afraid of losing him and that he has a lot of power in this situation. Now the other complicated thing is he's also in a situation that he'd rather not be in. He's clear. He doesn't feel comfortable with her being in relationships with other people, but he's, he's doing it anyway. Yeah. And I wanna be the first to say, this comes up a lot in poly mono relationships is at least a thing. A thing that I've seen is that if the polyamorous person is often feels like empowered to be polyamorous, to act on their polyamory, to be, to be with multiple people. And that the mono person just feels like they have to go along with it.
Libby:
And I think that's not true. I don't think the mono person has to put up with polyamory or the polyamorous person has to put up with monogamy. I don't think there's either position automatically wins, you know? But I think no matter what one person, it, no matter which way you go, one person does end up giving up something pretty important to them. You know, mm-hmm, like if you're polyamorous and you're with a monogamous person and you choose to only be with them, then you're giving up a, a big part of what you wanna do. But if you're monogamous and you really anticipated being monogamous for the rest of your life, you're giving up something. Yeah. So if your partner becomes polyamorous, so
Drew:
I mean, even just this is very emotionally draining. Yeah. Even though it sounds like that they think that's, that's worked out for the better.
Libby:
Yeah. But it's had some benefits that he's
Drew:
A better husband. That is something like, you gotta sign up to go down that path. I think it's also to think about the fact that she never conceived of being possible for her being polyamorous. Right. And so that's why she never really brought it up, you know, that she felt that stigma. And she thought that stigma would always keep her from considering as a possibility mm-hmm. So in some ways that wasn't like something she brought to the table that she was hiding from him. She never thought sh she, she never saw a way past that stigma. And then all of a sudden she realized, oh, I could live a life like this. And that stigma is not gonna block me. People thought something was never a possibility. And then the world changed. And suddenly it was, and suddenly that is something on the table between the two of you. Yeah.
Libby:
Yeah. And I mean, that's, I mean, there's all kinds of reasons why you wouldn't bring something up that you then later have to bring up. Yeah. You know, and I mean, I think that's, again, there's all kinds of reasons why you might end up partnered with somebody over or long term who then turns out isn't what you thought. And you get to decide at the end of the day is what I'm getting out of this relationship worth. The things that I am not getting that I wanted or worth dealing with the things that I got that I wasn't expecting. Yeah. You know, we have a ton of that. Like, you know, I could go into the thing about like, you wanted to have a dog and have the dog sleep in the bed. Oh yeah. And I was like, no, yeah,
Drew:
No, that's that, that's something that, You know.
Libby:
Then that's never gonna happen. Like that's, you know, you can, you can have that with Kia. You guys can have a dog together and sleep with that dog in a bed that I don't sleep in. Yeah. But that's a no go for me. Yeah. And you know, I could have compromised on it. I could have said I would try to be, be with that. But for me, it's a deal-breaker and Drew decided it wasn't a deal-breaker for him that he wanted to stay with me anyway.
Drew:
I mean, it was, it was something I, I really enjoyed. I had it my life, at least once I can look back on it and enjoy that time and remember it, but I can't and have there's big things in life that I can't have all of. Right. Right. And accepting that I think is part of like maturing in a relationship.
Libby:
Right. And then, and then there are times when you think you won't get something and then years later you do. Yeah. And so I think, you know, that's, that's just important to when, when you have the, as moments of I'm disappointed, I didn't get something I was hoping for go through that reckoning grieve it like grieving the loss of the thing that you wanted, then you gotta let it go. Yeah. Right. I mean, that's the part that worries me. Right. I've said this before, is that I don't think self-sacrifice is a very good love language. Yeah. I don't like the idea of, I give something up and therefore I'm owed something or, you know, this kind of transactional way of doing, of doing relationships where like I'm disappointed in something that I think I would get. And so now you have to be disappointed about something you would get, like I'm entitled to disappoint you in some kind of way.
Libby:
Right. I think that that's, that's something that I would look out for with these folks, you know, and that, and that I would look out for, in terms of like this, NRE like, I could see this NRE and this, this woman being this woman being drawn into her new relationship and the husband like guilting her with that and, and using it to control the relationship she has with this other partner. Yeah. It changes all the leverage. Like I'm doing this with you, I'm allowing this polyamory thing to happen. So, you know, I'm putting limitations in place on the relationship and, you know, if things get outta hand, then you know, I might pull the plug on and I feel like that's, you know, a lot of people talk about couple privilege and veto power and things like that. And I mean, you know, that does the, that kind of stuff seems like it's permeating this post a little bit. The thing that sort of stuck up to me that I kind of called up before is he's very respectful of us and knows his boundaries. Right. The way that I took that was he knows what I have told my wife is, and isn't okay with him to do with him. Yeah. It's good that they clearly communicated those with him. Yeah. You know, hopefully, and that he knows that they are gonna be the people that grow together and make kids together or whatever, cuz that's what they've agreed on. And
Drew:
Hopefully he's down for that.
Libby:
I mean, yeah. I mean, but that's the thing like you may not be well, right. And I mean, the thing is relationships, as we know, grow into things you don't plan on all the time. Yeah. And I go both ways on this. Like I think it's important that relationships be able to grow organically and be able to be what they wanna be. And also, as I've said before, there are people that I fall in love with who aren't good compatible life partnerships for me. Right. And if I let the relationship kind of just grow wherever it wanted, it might grow into a place where it's harmful to my life or it's impacting, it's taking up time that I don't wanna be taking up doing things I don't care as much about as the other things I care about. And at the end of the day, you only have so much time, attention and energy, like love is infinite, but those things aren't and you have to decide to prioritize what's important to you.
Libby:
And so, you know, the other sort of dark side of NRE is that it can cause you to just forget about your priorities and forget about what's important to you. Yeah. And you have to stay if you're the person who's in NRA, you have to remember to stay grounded and of focused on what's important to you. And so, you know, if this other relationship is important to the wife, she needs to put the energy into the relationship into her marriage, not to keep the husband happy, but because it's important to her. Right. You know, not to keep the husband unthreatened, but because she cares about this relationship and wants it to last a lifetime.
Drew:
Right. Well, I mean, I think it's also important to say that like her desire to spend more time with this other guy, which may last, you know, again for NRE period or, or may lead to something even more transitional to the relationship, right. That desire does not take away that she wants this, her original relationship and that she values it in the same way that like, you know, when we get obsessed with some game on our phones, oh God, you know, and spend way too much time doing that. Right. That doesn't take away all our deepest values and commitments or anything else.
Libby:
Well, but on the flip side, you know, if I'm hanging out with you and I'm not giving you any attention, cuz I'm sucked into my phone, you're gonna feel neglected. Right. Yeah. And it's important. And I'm gonna, and the thing is the important thing to say there is that I'm gonna feel neglected. Yeah. Even though I'm the one doing the neglecting, right. I'm gonna feel undernourished by the relationship that I'm not giving attention to. And I th think that when you're feeling those jealousy feelings, it's worth asking yourself, Hey, what is it I'm afraid of? What is it I need right now? Is this a need that I can get met for myself? Am I just wanting, you know, comfort? Maybe I can go get comfort somewhere else. Maybe I can go meditate, whatever. Or am I wanting attention? And do I need to ask my partner for some attention and some care. And, but the important thing is when you are asking for it really asking instead of demanding, you know, and feeling entitled because you're not entitled to attention, you're not entitled to drop off the hat whenever you want it on-demand care. Yeah. And emotional processing. It always has to be a thing that you're, that you're respecting what your partner's doing and then requesting, Hey, this is important
Drew:
Too. Yeah. And I think it's important that both, you have, you practice those in the moment requests mm-hmm right. For what I need, but also that you have a LAR you have larger meta conversations about like, yeah, here, here, like in the moment I feel uncomfortable asking you for this because when I do you act or act annoyed or get defensive or get defensive mm-hmm but in general, I wanna find a way to ask for your attention, what I want and asked in that different context, that might be much easier. And it's important to have both of those contexts to have that conversation and yeah. The immediate and the reflecting.
Libby:
Yeah. And I guess like, you know, to the, to the use, the fire analogy, you know, slow burning fire versus, you know, this bright, big bonfire, you know, the bright, big bonfire is kind of fueling itself. Right? Yeah. Whereas the slow burning fire, you have to keep putting fuel on it. There's a certain point where like, if you want that fire to stay alive, you have to keep putting wood on it. You have to give it oxygen. And that requires intention if I were, and also the husband, like, and I mean, it sounds like they're doing this, like they're going to counseling. They're being thoughtful about this. Yeah. You know, I just think it's important that they continue to feed that fire, you know, that they continue to take care of it and tend to it and not let this bonfire burn everything up, you know, because I think that's important.
Libby:
And, but I think that the means of doing that is so important because I mean, there's so many ways to trip, to slip and trip, to control, to slip into demands instead of requests to slip into guilt and trying to control the other relationship is a way of feeling. Okay. Yeah. And those are all dangerous and traps and, and the thing is I've experienced feeling like, even if nobody's asking me to do that, like I, I mean, I feel like there were times when you've been threatened by some past relationships of mine. Yeah. And you've never, ever overtly asked me to do anything different in those relationships. You've asked me for consideration to you, like things that you need to feel. Okay. You know, mm-hmm, different kinds of things. Like one time you asked me to text you and just let you know when I was going to sleep. Yeah. You know, and that was a request. It wasn't a demand. And it was just a consideration thing that you asked me for. Yeah. And there were other things like that, that like you, you wanted like a time when you wanted to know if we were seeing each other, just to know, just to have that information, you didn't act entitled to it, but like you just wanted to know so that you could kind of mentally be aware of the landscape of things. Yeah. And
Drew:
Plan, plan my own schedule.
Libby:
And, but I mean, even if, But I mean, even if it wasn't impacting you, you know, like even if we were gonna see each other, like, well you were at work or something, you know, you wanted to know, like you never said, Hey, don't do these things with this partner. Don't do these things, you know, don't and see them less. Don't see them less. Don't this way don't downplay them to me. Like, don't try to pretend that it's less than it is. And I think those are all temptations that you can run into when you're in that phase where you're in NRA with somebody and someone else is feeling threatened by that. And I would say really resist, downplaying the relationship for sure. Because that not only doesn't really protect your partner, it just makes them not feel like they can trust you. Right. Cuz they can tell they can usually sense it anyway.
Libby:
But also it's really disrespectful to the existing, the other relationship too. Like if you're willing to downplay the, the love that you're feeling for this new person, you're not willing to celebrate it. You're not willing to acknowledge it to the other people who are close to you. That's gonna be hard for that partner to like, get the sense of that. But the other thing that you don't wanna be tempted to do is to, you know, not do things with your partner because you're afraid it's gonna threaten your other partner. You know? Like you're afraid that they're gonna have a bad reaction or something like that doesn't mean you cannot decide to do those things or whatever, but like don't make a decision for your partner to protect them from something that they're not asking for and that, you know, intentionally limits your relationship without anybody's negotiation
Drew:
Around. Yeah. And then you have two relationships in both of which you're terrified about what's gonna happen in the other relationship all the time. Yeah.
Libby:
Yeah. No, they're tempting things. Like there were times when I was like, well, I don't wanna hurt anybody. So I don't wanna, you know, you know, I don't wanna be here and there's, I've seen people break up with other people that, you know, their partner didn't ask them to do that, but they just felt like it was too hard, you know? And I would just encourage you to, to be careful about that because any decisions you make to self-sacrifice in the name of your partner's comfort when they're not asking you to. Yeah. And also when they're, you know, it's just, that's just gonna set you up for resentment down the road, I think.
Drew:
Yeah think a proactive thing that she could do here. Yeah. His acknowledged, I really wanna spend more time with this other guy. Yeah. I probably am gonna do that. Yeah. And that means I'm gonna spend less time with you. My, my original partner. Mm. So like, you know, like with any relationship challenge, if she got a job that had a lot of travel and I'm gonna see a lot less of you, this is gonna be a challenge to our relationship. What sorts of things can we do that will make us still feel connected that will still help us accommodate this change. Right? Yeah. Naming it first is important. That's why that's the way she can be proactive about prompting him to ask what for what he wants. Yeah. Without assuming.
Libby:
Well, and of course, I mean, I don't know if you've had this experience, I've had this experience where like, if I try to ask somebody about those things, they might be like, well, I don't know what I need and I'm having a hard time thinking about it. Yeah. And I don't feel like I should have to ask for it. You know, that's another trap that people can fall into. Yeah. You
Drew:
Have to, you have to ask for it. Yeah. And you have to, you have to assume that you have to ask for it because asking for things is a very important skill.
Libby:
Well, and I mean, it's important not to be mad that your partner might sometimes not have your needs at the front of their brain every second, all the time. Yeah. And that might be a change if you're used to monogamy, because that might have been the thing that you operated with, especially in your right, in your E they are in the front of your brain all the time. And so, you know, that might be, you might be having a hard time not being in the front of their brain all the time. Yeah. I agree. I think that that proactively sort of getting ahead of it and saying, Hey, I I'm noticing, I might say I'm noticing that I wanna spend more time with this person. I don't wanna just throtle that back instead. Could we talk about how much time you want to spend with me so that I can get a sense of how much time, how to balance my time.
Libby:
Yeah. You know, and notice what I didn't say was, let's talk about how much time I can have with my partner. Yeah. Because let me just say your time does not belong to your do spouse or live-in partner or whomever, your time only ever belongs to you. And so you don't, you, you know, unless outside of childcare commitment commitments, which I'm noticing these folks don't have kids yet. Cuz childcare commitments. Yeah. Okay. Well, in that case, all your time belongs to your children but if you don't have children, then your time belongs to you and you don't have to ask your partner for permission to have a date.
Drew:
I mean, that's, that's actually a great analogy. Not that's actually a great other version of that. Right. When they have kids, they're gonna have a lot less time for each other period. Yeah. So this is, this is actually in some ways probably good practice for what's gonna happen when they have kids.
Libby:
That was a good point. Yeah. How would we sum this up? So the first thing is yes, NRA is temporary,
Drew:
But real, but real could, could this, what, what things are at the end of it when the NRA is over? Well, not necessarily and probably will not be what they started With.
Libby:
Yeah. So it's transformational potentially. Yeah. But could be a good thing. And it's a palette, it's a color on the palette to work with. And not the end all be all of anything. Keep working on your relationship, keep tending that fire, get better at explicitly negotiating what you need and want be careful not to use your fear to control. Mm yeah. The other relationship. And don't use your fear of what your partner might feel as a way of controlling your own relationship. Like don't make decisions about your relationship to protect affect your partner. Yeah. If they're afraid and if you're jealous, listen to your jealousy, see what's underneath it, see what needs are there for you and figure out how to get them met. Make sure you stay with requests rather than demands and don't feel entitled to anything and accept that change is the only inevitable thing that's gonna come out of any of this. So, you know, be in tune with your expectations, be ready to be disappointed and move through it. Cuz that's, that's kind of what it takes, I think, to be in a long term relationship. And oh, and then the last thing is, I mean, I'd really encourage them to get to a place of clarity around like if they're non monogamous now out, if that's the agreement that they've made, then they gotta let it go. They gotta let go of the guilt. They
Drew:
Have, self-sacrifice going both ways. Right. He's he's giving up all this stuff and it's very upsetting for him. And he's giving that to her to let her have this relationship. Yeah. And then she's going back and doing the same thing back. Like I, I am, I'm feeling guilty about seeing this guy so much. So I'm sacrificing now I desire to go see this guy.
Libby:
Well, she hasn't said that she's doing that yet, but she's having a panic attack about it. Right. I would be careful not to use that as a currency. I would say if you've made the agreement that you're gonna be disappointed about not being monogamous, if you've accepted that, then accept it and let it go and move on. Yeah. If you keep holding it over each other, then again, it's, it's, it's always gonna be a point of leverage. And I don't think it's a healthy one. There's just a point where like, okay, you, you didn't get what you were hoping for here. You got something else. You gotta let it go or, or break up. Like if you really wanna be monogamous and that's really what you wanna be, then break up and find someone else and be in a monogamous relationship and be set up for other disappointments. Cuz they'll just, they'll just have different ones.
