Will the Kids Be Alright?
Finally an episode on polyamorous parenting. Libby shares her take.
Transcript
All right here. It is. After long, last I am presenting you today with an episode on polyamorous parenting. I've had a lot of requests for this episode. I'm told that many people struggle to find good resources on this topic. And since I, I am pretty upfront that I'm a mom, I've got two young kids who are as of right now, five and seven years old. So I've been asked to weigh in on this topic and share how I do polyamory as a parent. I've held off on this by the way until now, because there's no way I can create an episode that is comprehend of enough to cover everything around polyamory and parenting by itself is something that people write multiple books about. And that's kept me kind of stuck. And so it's kind of fittingly taken me about nine months to pull this episode together. And what I hope that this will be is a good starting point for an ongoing conversation about how we grow excellent families together while also living and loving in a way that may be a little different from your standard nuclear family.
So actually, before I dive in, I want to say that I intend this episode to be specifically for parents or prospective parents who are polyamorous or who are considering practicing polyamory and are concerned about how that's going to work when they have kids or with the kids that they, the impact that it might have on their kids or how they're going to balance all of it. I say this because as my wonderful partner Kyyr rightly brought up, when I talk to them about this episode, many conversations about polyamorous parenting tend to be happening from the position of like defending the rights of polyamorous parents or providing evidence that polyamory doesn't hurt kids or providing justification for why polyamorous families are just as valid as other families. And I'm really grateful for the people who do that work. It's important to me in, you know, talking about that.
I'm not doing anything bad or hurting my kids, but my experience as a parent has in that, knowing that I have a right to be a parent, just like anybody else, doesn't help me navigate the day to day questions about how to best care for my children while also embracing who I am and living and loving the, in a way that is true for me. So I'm hoping this episode will be a step towards filling that need, because it, I can see that it's a need. The truth is parenting is full of so many fears when they're small, we just hope they don't choke or fall down the stairs or otherwise kill or name themselves. And as they get older, we just don't wanna fuck them up too much. Or at least we don't wanna fuck them up. As much as we were up fucked up as kids.
Speaking for myself, I know the world can be a really rough and tumble place. And I know that there is some trauma awaiting my children out there, and I wanna make sure not that they never experience anything hard, but that they are as resourced as they can be to handle it and move through it. And everything that I know is that the best way to do that is to make the family a safe place where they can process the hard things in life and heal and know that they are loved no matter what a coach that I worked with for a little while, put it in a much more simple way. I accept that my children will probably need therapy. I just don't want it to be because of me. I think a big fear that some parents have about being polyamorous and the fear that it might fuck their kids up in some kind of way is the tension between polyamory and the freedom it brings and the potential instability that can sometimes come with that.
And I wanna say that is a valid fear. As I brought up in my episode about disruption polyamory often does shake up a relationship, can shake you up, shake up your identity. And every childhood psychologist and early childhood development expert will tell you that kids need stability to thrive. But I wanna offer that there are ways to create stability even while so experiencing change and disruption. And as I noted in my episode about disruption change and disruption are a part of life, no matter what kind of relationship you have, some examples I can think of are, you know, a death in the family, divorce, remarriage work, travel military families, where you have to move around a lot or where one parent is on deployment or some other kind of career that someone might have that requires frequent relocation changes to income, a new job with different hours, physical and mental health issues coming up an injury.
So many things can be disruptive to a family and be a big source of change frankly, having kids is its own disruption. I mean, it turned me inside out and turned my world upside down. It can radically change the relationship between the people who produce the offspring, but change and disruption don't have to mean that children are traumatized as a result of it. And in fact, many families have stories of challenges that they've faced together and overcome, and they're better for it. They've grown together. And so it can be a generative thing instead of a traumatizing thing. And while I feel like we've, we may have downloaded the idea that monogamy like two parents in a household is the most stable environment for children. And that it's better than polyamory. I feel like divorce rates and other factors such as domestic violence rates of abuse and neglect don't necessarily bear that story out. I really don't think that any relationship structure is inherently more stable than any other for raising a family. There are ways that polyamory can be destabilized thought. And I think it's important not to gloss that over, but as with any situation where there may be change, what can help is to create structures within your family dynamic that maximize that stability and that security and minimize harm, and instead create the possibility for resilience to support moving through any potential disruption, which can actually serve kids throughout their life. As they grow.
As I reflected on what I do to create that strong internal structure in my family, I was able to identify for four key things that I, that serve as a guide for me. I'm gonna call them the pillars of polyamorous parenting because I really love alliteration. So there you go. These have helped me navigate some of the things that come up for me as a polyamorous parent, and here they are first be reliable and consistent. Second, tell the truth, three integrate partners with care and four have excellent boundaries. And even as I lay these out, because I'm gonna go into detail about them in a minute, but like, as I go through them, what you may find as many people seem to find with other episodes of this podcast, that these guidelines might be just good guidelines for supporting your children through any sort of challenge.
So, you know, they may be more universally applicable than just a polyamory, but these are what I use as my guiding star. Okay. First and foremost, being reliable and consistent, all that means is just try not to drop the ball and show up, right? Keep your promises and be accountable when you don't meaning, say, you're sorry, and do better next time and admit when you fuck up, show up. When you say, you're gonna show up, give notice when something is going to change, whether it's an new person visiting the house more, or mommy being gone one or two nights a week when normally she would be home in the morning and, you know, figure out also and commit within yourself to how much time you need to be around for your kids and keep that pretty consistent.
I'm gonna say it again. So much of parenting is just showing up day in, day out and being really present, not being checked out, whether it's on your phone or, you know, texting your partners or just, you know, not being present, you know, be present when you're with them and then let them know what to expect and what not to expect and deliver on what you tell them to expect and not to expect being there for your kids is what helps them form that healthy, secure attachment that we're all told we want to help our kids have. That becomes the bedrock for how they form relationships as adults and how they relate to you. That doesn't mean you can't up. Sometimes parents up that. That's part of it. And Tron, as I mentioned in my episode about repair has done some excellent research on that.
It's not about perfect harmony, perfect attachment, perfect attunement. That makes you a good parent. It's doing your best. And then when you mess up repairing it, making it better, kids can learn to be resilient. They can learn to be disappointed. They can learn to be frustrated and handle different things. If they know at the end of the day, that they can count on you and that you'll be there for them and that you can be with them wherever they are. You know, that's the most important thing. The key thing about polyamory in regards to it is that polyamory can pull you off your center. And so if you are gonna do that, you need to be clear on where you're gonna show up and where you're not gonna let your center get pulled away and you wanna be consistent even in the face of, oh my God, I'm in love with somebody new, but I gotta pay attention to my kid right now. So I'm gonna do that because you don't want some partner and a bunch of NRA to cause you to fail your kid. Okay. Second pillar, Tell the truth, Tell the truth,
Tell the truth.
There are so many reasons for this, but the biggest one is that kids feel safe. If they know they can trust their grownups and kids are very, very perceptive, more perceptive than I would like them to be more than any adult would probably like them to be. So if you are telling your children things that come conflict with what they see and perceive with their own senses, then what you're gonna do is you're gonna do one of two things. You're either gonna teach them to not trust you or worse. You may teach them to not trust themselves. And that, that second thing I think is even more dangerous to teach them to not trust what they see with their own senses that can put them in danger in the future. If they don't learn how to trust what they see and what they hear so much better, if you're able to validate what they see and what they hear
And telling the truth, doesn't mean just don't tell lies. Okay? If you're extra affectionate with one of your partners in front of your kids, or if your kids notice that one of one parent is spending regular nights away from home every week, or they hear you and your co-parent arguing about a particular person over and over again, they're gonna notice that and they're immature. They don't have context for what they're seeing and what they're hearing. So their brain is make up a story about what's happening there because that's what our brains are designed to do. And again, since they are immature and they don't have enough context for what's going on and they may never have even heard of polyamory, the story that they're gonna makeup maybe a whole lot worse than what's actually going on. And that might be scary for them.
And it might make them feel more unstable and anxious then knowing the truth would, the best thing you can do for that is to acknowledge what they're seeing, especially if they call it out and tell the truth about it and make space for them to ask questions and assure them regularly with honesty, what will and won't change as a result of what they're noticing, but also telling the truth to your kids doesn't mean that you need to, or even should tell them everything. What you tell your kids should be age-appropriate and relevant to them. So for instance, my kids are five and seven and they haven't been all that exposed to a lot of media about romantic relationships for them really you're either a friend or your family and that's about it. Or you're neither of those, you're someone we don't even know.
So I think it's perfectly fine in that context. If that's what your kids know to describe your partner as a friend, that's not a lie. That's something that they can understand. And they understand that friends sometimes sleepover or have sleepovers at their house. They understand that friends hug and spend quality time together and tell each other that they love each other. As they get older, they might need to understand more about what all that means. And as relationship with partners may be deepen into something that feels more like family, then that warrants a conversation about that. So you don't need to rush to explain everything to your kids. You probably won't even be able to hold their attention if you try anyway. So instead what you wanna do is, you know, check on things with them, like ask them what they're picking up, kind of test and see what they believe, make room to hear from them.
And again, that's, that's, that's showing up and being with them and giving them a chance to have a conversation instead of like always just doing stuff and not ever sitting and having a quiet moment and then, you know, as needed, if they seem to have a wrong idea about something you can explain or clarify, you know, again, ask questions, put feelers out. And if the kids don't really bite, if they seem really oblivious and they're not interested, don't push it. You know a great book that I really recommend for some concrete tips on how to do this is a book called how to listen to kids. So they'll talk and how to talk to kids. So they'll listen, it's a really good book. And I will link that in the show notes. Another important part about telling the truth, and this is kind of a sticky one is that it's also good to not make your kids tell lies to protect you or make the, and keep secrets for you.
Now, applying this one may look a little different depending on the situation you're in or the context that you have. For instance, I know not everyone is safe to be out about their polyamory, to like family or to their job. And so navigating, not making your kids hold secrets while telling the truth to them may be a difficult needle to thread, but I encourage you to not take the easy route here. You, you may decide to hold off on integrating your partners with your kids until you're ready to be out, or until they're mature enough to know who to tell what and why, but that can also have costs. You know, for one, it can make your non-parent partner feel like an outsider, and they're just kind of sitting and waiting at the gates until they're allowed to be more part of your life. And it also hiding something big from your kids can be sort of a shock when the truth does come out.
And again, that can sort of undermine trust. Like if you've been hiding something from them all this time, we made the choice because as we were able to, to be out to our kids from day one, you know, literally day one, when it comes to my younger kid and we made the choice to be out to everyone else because in my experience, little kids don't have a filter. So you know, we knew that the kids would probably tell everyone about our polyamory. If we didn't, you know, we came out to my husband's parents for that reason. You know, so we also live in a progressive part of the United States though. And we work in fields that are very accepting of who we are. And I know that's not true for everyone. I think one way to thread the needle of balancing you, you know, not wanting everyone to know about your polyamory and wanting your kids to be looped into that is to teach your kids about what kinds of things you do share with certain people and what kinds of things you don't share with certain people and what kinds of things are private and why those things are private.
I plan to talk about this topic actually in greater detail on a subsequent episode because I think coming out and the perils of coming out and talking about outness and all of that is really its own topic could get a whole episode. Okay. So tell the truth is, the second pillar. So the third pillar is be thoughtful and deliberate about how you integrate partners into your family structure. Again, this is about creating that stability where you can, if you're wanting to add a partner to your family life, including them in family rituals or holidays, moving in with you, going on, family vacations, et cetera, that is going to invite your kids. It's going to signal to your kids, that they should form a deeper attachment to those people than they would someone you just introduce as a friend now, while I don't think it's any kind of big deal to have partners come and go when they're on that friend level with your kids, cuz I think that's normal.
Like people do kind of, you know, cycle through a kid's life. People like teachers and babysitters and even their own school friends and things like that. So, you know, that's okay. And I don't think that's a huge disruption, but when things start to look more like family to your kid, then that can be a bigger deal. And it's important to have intentional conversations with your partners about when they start getting in included in family type things. What does that mean? What kind of commitment is there and also how will you handle things if your relationship does need to deescalate or break up? I'll also say because a more familial relationship invites your kids to attach and bond with your partners. It's also important to be very deliberate about like just not jumping the gun on those kinds of deepenings of intimacy. You may be able to tolerate people being part of your family and then not.
And that, that can be, you know, not a big deal, but for a kid that can be destabilizing, your kids could come to rely on these other adults as caregivers. And they may become people that make up that child support system and part of providing their sense of wellbeing. So, you know, because of that, my suggestion is to really consider waiting until NRA has faded or maybe even is fully worn off before making moves that signal to your kids, that this person is going to be a more fixed part of their lives because NRA can really drive you to just desire more and more and more and more of your partner, which can make you like just really wanna integrate them into every part of your life. But it's possible that doing that. And then the relationship quickly imploding right after and that happening over and over and over again, could create this real feeling of instability for your kids and also undermine their trust in you as a parent, cuz you keep inviting people into their lives for them to attach to and then, you know, big explosive, dramatic breakup later.
And suddenly they're like, well, why did I do that? You know, and that can be really painful. So I'm not saying that you can never end a relationship with a partner that you include as part of your family that you know, that's not what I'm saying. No relationship has to be permanent, but I think you wanna be careful about who you bring in and form that kind of level of commitment with you wanna be able to, to have that conversation about what happens when, when it's over and know that that person's gonna be a good person for your kids and that's gonna, you know, treat them with respect and that you guys are gonna be all invested together and not having a lot of, you know, destabilizing break stuff happening. You know, if the things do need to deescalate also understand that just like any other relationship, your kid's relationship with your partners or metas will have its own life.
And that is something you can neither limit nor force, well, I guess you can limit it, but can't force it. Your kids may form a close bond with your partners and they may not. And they may actively not get along at all. They may not like each other, just like you can't force metamour to be best friends. So too, you can't force your kids to like who you do. You can, as I said, you know, limit how much exposure it's get to different adults, but there's a limit on how much you can limit it too. I think because there's a point where that can be controlling. I think so, you know, one last thing about this breakups that happen with someone, your kid has a deep bond with can have an impact on them, but it's also something they can survive. It's just important to support your kid through that experience.
And that might be hard cuz you might be having a lot of big emotions about it too, but you need to be able to hold space for them, their grief and the ways it might be hard for them. So be willing to talk them through it, be willing to allow their feelings and take what they tell you, how they're feeling seriously and be prepared that your kid might want to continue to have a relationship with your ex, even if you aren't together anymore. And it may be in your interest. It may be in everyone's interest to actually support that. As, as long as your ex isn't like potentially harmful to your kid or are, you know, harmful to you in some kind of way, okay. Fourth pillar boundaries have excellent boundaries. The first part of this is it's really important to be mindful, not to give things to your kids, to deal with that.
Aren't really theirs to hold a it's something that Terry real calls, false empowerment. You, you don't want to make them in charge of managing things that aren't theirs to manage. If you're having a hard time in any of your partnerships, especially the relationship you have with their other parent or parents do everything you can to keep that from being something your kids have to. That doesn't mean you have to hide. It doesn't mean you can't have conflict in front of your kids, but make sure that you are managing that conflict that you're showing that you're the adult in the room be emotionally regulated. And if your kids are seeing that conflict, make sure they also see the repair. Again, you being able to have healthy conflict actually where your kids can see the whole process is gonna help them learn how to have it too.
But you wanna make sure that you're not making them in any way responsible for it or feel responsible for it. Second thing while I recognize that many polyamorous parents aren't necessarily partnered with their co-parents, if you are in a romantic relationship with your co-parent and things, get Rocky, it's not wrong to want to prioritize, strengthening that. I know that some people are gonna say, oh, that sounds really couple privilegy and it is tricky. But I do think having a solid relationship with your co-parent, whether you're in a romantic relationship or not is pretty important. And if that is going off the rails, I would prioritize getting it back on the rails. Because again, that's part of creating that stable struck sure for your kids. If you're having a lot of trouble, I'd get help. Also I don't suggest breaking up with other partners or downshifting other relationships just to work on the existing relationship with your co-parent.
But I do suggest investing resources where you can ensuring up that relationship that it's secure and functioning and as stable as it can be. And if that's not possible, like if it's just off the rails and it's explosive and you're trying, but the other person isn't or whatever, then I would work to transition that relationship to something that does work better. For both of you, whether that's shifting boundaries, maybe that's shifting to a PLA co-parenting relationship, maybe it's separation, maybe it's divorce. Maybe it's just sleeping in separate beds like that can sometimes make things a lot easier. But even divorce is sometimes the right call and divorce doesn't have to be traumatic for the family. Either. There are ways to transition a relationship of two peacefully while maintaining stability and communicating with your kids compassionately about what's happening while making space for their grief. There are ways that the whole thing can be a dramatic show and it's a sure-fire way to traumatize your kids if you do that.
But I wanna point out that again, divorce and high conflict divorce and all of that, that happened as much or more in monogamous marriages. And the flip side though, is that I actually think parents who decide to transition their relationship in a loving, supportive way, that it can be a transformative growth experience for the whole family, rather than this trauma. You just have to be committed to, to creating that emotional stability and put in the work to communicate with authenticity and kindness within your family. I read a book over the summer by Glen and Doyle called untamed. And she writes so eloquently about her experience with this. Well, she was married with to this man. They had three kids together and she fell in love and she realized she couldn't be in her marriage anymore. And she went to her husband and said, you know, we have to transition our relationship.
And I'm so sorry, let's work through this compassionately and lovingly. And I'm sure it was really hard and I'm sure we don't get to see the inside of all the hard, but the book really eloquently talks about the things that they did to keep their family structure strong, even as the shape of their relationship changed. So I do think it's possible. And I would love to see more of that. It's one of the reasons why I do the workaround breakups that I do is because I think learning how to break up well, when that is what's needed is just as important as anything else. So another aspect of boundaries is that you may want to talk with your non-co-parent partners about how much involvement you and their other parents are comfortable with them having with your kids and also how much involvement they would like to have with your kids.
Because I think, you know, that definitely needs to be explicitly negotiated. You know, whether they wanna be involved in childcare, whether they want certain responsibilities, whether you want specifically for them not to have certain responsibilities and all of this can change over time, it certainly has in my relationships. So it's good to continue to check-in and treat it as an evolving conversation as your relationship progresses. But it's also really important to have that conversation open it up so that you guys can be explicit about what you're doing so that nobody's stepping on each other's toes or countermanding each other. Because the thing is when you get involved with kids, I think it's inevitable that you have an idea about what should happen, even if you're not the parent. And that can be tricky. So I think it's really important to go over where it's okay for you to weigh in and where it's not okay for you to weigh in if you're not the parent.
And that can be true, even if you are a parent of your own children, but you're in a relationship with someone who is a parent of their children, you know, it's very important to talk about what's okay. And what's not another challenge you may run into around boundaries. If you are in partner with your co-parent is if you and your co-parent are both dating and you live together, you're gonna have to negotiate childcare. I have heard stories of one parent doing a lot more dating and going out than the other one and leaving the childcare to fall on that other parent in an inequitable way. If one parent is dating more than the it's really important, still that both parents have enough time, both apart to take care of themselves and recharge their batteries. However, they wanna do that, even if they wanna do that alone or with friends or doing a hobby or whatever, and also making sure that they have enough time together to maintain and nurture their relationship, and also have time together.
Co-Parenting with the kids. One of my parent friends flagged this for me years ago when he said that it's much easier for parents to have fun with other people than together because, you know, it's easier to trade off who's to taking care of the kids. And so, you know, one parent would like spend time with one partner and the kids and the other parent would have a, you know, a fun adult date with their partner, but there needs to be time for the parents together and for the family unit together. And I, I think that is important. I think it's important to be mindful of like passing the kids back and forth like a football so that each parent can do their own thing, because I think that can make parenting feel more like a job than it needs to be. And, you know, so I just, I keep an eye on that.
The final thing I'll say about boundaries, and there's so much to say about boundaries and parents, but this is the last thing I'll say, which is around what you will and won't give up and do for your kids. This challenge comes up for me often as a parent. And it is, I think maybe one of the hardest things as a parent, when I had my first child, I knew that I could easily quit working, quit all my friendships, quit all my hobbies and devote myself completely to caring for my child and that I would still be able to completely fill my days. Definitely, with two that's even more true parenting is a job that never ends. And it is highly unlikely that your children, especially when they're small are gonna be like, Hey parent, you've been working so hard, put your feet up for a while and rest, and I'll go take care of myself.
I wish. Right. But if you sacrifice yourself completely to raising your kids, if you find yourself ready to give up on things that bring you joy when your kid is having a hard time, whether it's, you know, going out, swing, dancing, or go on dates two nights a week, I really want you to think twice about that and get really clear on where your lines are. I do think there is a line that you can cross where you're, where you're not showing up enough for your kids. You're not being attentive enough for your kids. And so when you fall below that line, you really are neglecting your job. And I think that's a real thing. I wanna make sure that you know, that's that I call that out, but I also think there's a line where you can instead be emptying yourself out for your kids and completely neglecting yourself.
And that's also not good. You cannot draw water from an empty well, so you gotta find that space between and sometimes setting a boundary for you to take care of. You will feel just torturous. I remember just a few months after I quit my day job to start coaching. And it's funny cuz I in part started coaching so that I could have more flexibility in my schedule so that I could be more around my kids. But anyway, one of my kids who was very young at the time, just tattled up to me in my office after I was done with a call and said, mommy, when are you gonna quit your coaching job?
And it just gutted me. I mean, it just completely gutted me. And I was like, at the same time, the other part of me was like, fuck you. I get to do something for myself. Come on. I mean, of course he wants to be with me every minute that he can be with me. But if I gave him every minute that I had, I would've nothing for myself. And that just doesn't work. You know, it's that old saying, you put your oxygen mask on first before helping others. So, you know, I hugged him and I told him I wouldn't be quitting. And I told him that I miss him when I'm working. And I told him to go play. It's okay to miss your kids. It's okay for them to miss you. It's okay. If they want more from you than you're giving them, you need to figure out where your minimum viable product is for like parenting and then exceed that sometimes.
But then also be allow yourself to have your own life and your own joys. That's very essential. I think I hope what you're hearing in this episode, as I talk about parenting polyamorously is that I think a lot about it and I take it really seriously. I'm really grateful for the writing and research from people like Elizabeth chef that shows that children raised in polyamorous families are in fact no worse off and are in some cases better off than children raised in monogamous families. But I don't want people to take away from that research than there are not ways that things can go horribly wrong because I think there are, it's just also true that there are ways that things can go horribly wrong with raising kids, no matter what kind of relationship you have a lot of it's you dealing with your and being a good person and showing up and having good boundaries.
And the key is to manage what I ever instability does come your way with consistent practices that help you be a good parent that help your kids feel secure. That help them feel competent in navigating the twist and turns in life. And to be able to bounce back from setbacks, you wanna be reliable and consistent. You wanna build trust with them by telling the truth. You wanna take great care about how, and when you integrate partners into your family and you wanna work your boundaries that will help your kids feel supported and safe. And even if you mess up, sometimes it's more likely that your kids will be just fine.
