When Your Partner Has A Mental Health Crisis
On this episode, Libby is joined by Mel Cassidy of Radical Relationship Coaching to discuss a question from a listener about how to navigate polyamory when a partner is struggling with their mental health.
Visit Mel on the web: http://radicalrelationshipcoaching.ca/
Transcript
I feel like the internet advice or certain books that we shall not mention advice is kind of go do your own, work on yourself and go figure yourself out. And I'm not gonna slow anything down for you. Yeah. And that's not a trauma-informed approach, you know, and, and it's unfortunate that we've gotten to this phase in the polyamory and consensual non-monogamy community, where there is a lot of, well, that's your thing to deal with. You have to go figure it out and there isn't enough compassion and space holding.
I'm so excited to be releasing this episode, which I actually recorded in the springtime with the lovely and wonderful and brilliant and talented Mel Cassidy of radical relationship coaching. Mel is a dear friend and an extremely talented coach and educator. And I am so happy to have her on the show with me. We are answering a question that I got from one of my listeners who was struggling with a real question of being polyamorous while dealing with a partner who is in a major mental health crisis. So without further ado, let's get into the episode.
Libby: Welcome to making polyamory work. I'm so happy to have you here. Would you like to introduce yourself to our listeners here for those who do not know who you are?
Mel: Yeah, my name's Mel, I'm a relationship coach and I love working with social misfits and cultural rebels. I tend to specialize in working with folks who are exploring relationship anarchy and a lot of solo polyamory as well. That's what I do.
Libby: Yeah. And you're running a course right now. Right?
Mel: I teach online as well. And I have an online course, a six-week online course called the monogamy detox that runs twice a year, which is pretty awesome in my own bias opinion. Of course.
Libby: I've heard good things.
Mel: Yeah, I've run it in the spring and fall. It's around April and October.
Libby: Okay. Well cool. Thank you for joining me so that we could answer a message I got from a listener.
Libby: I'm gonna read it, but I'm also going to change some details so that it's anonymized here it goes. Hi Libby. I'm currently navigating, opening up into polyamory, and also I have a partner who is having a mental health crisis and it is a long-term partner. And this partner has been asking me while they're in crisis to choose between them and my other partner, who I've been with for a few months, this partner has a lot of trauma and depression, and other mental health challenges that have also sound like recurring from previous relationships. And there's also some other stuff going on, including some big life changes in their friend group and in their living situation, including moving across the country and the other partners also living across the country. So they're there. So that's gonna change a lot of things all at once. My long-term partner is really struggling right now, and I'm encouraging them to seek counseling and support and to hold off on any big decisions until we have some more direct support in terms of counseling or trauma specialists.
Libby: And I'm honoring my partners’ boundaries in I'm feeling stuck. I'm trying to be true to myself and fair to both partners. And I'm having a hard time seeing another way forward. I could use your help. I wanna name that. This is a, a little bit of not totally, but a little bit of the inverse of an episode that I did a few weeks ago with a friend of mine, where we talked about what it's like being the partner. That's not nested or not, not as long term or what have you, who has been told to back off of a relationship when that relationship is in crisis and discussing that in this case, this is the hinge partner basically is saying I'm feeling really stuck. And my partner that I have the long term relationship with is in crisis, my more partners in crisis and is asking me to back off my other relationship.
Libby: That's newer. And the other thing we see here, I think that, that you probably see as well, Mel is lots of things besides this new relationship that are at play mental health crises, reliving past traumas, big change in look and life constellation and all that kind of stuff. And yet it sounds like the place where there's the battleground is in this relationship. And I think that's a common thing to have happen, but what would, what do you wanna say about that?
Mel: Sounds like this partner is in a crisis and there's so many overwhelming pieces going on. And one of the interesting things is that when we are over overwhelmed when it feels like there are so many things changing or that are beyond our ability to affect, we will try to get more control over the things that we think we do have control over. And that's a strategy for safety, right? And I, I can probably talk more about the importance of finding safety, but when we are in that state of crisis, I mean, it means that we're overwhelmed. There's so much going on and it's really hard for our brain to process it. I think that polyamory lends itself to this because it is a more complex form of relating because you are navigating multiple relational needs all the time. So the minute that there's other things that are pulling at your attention or other things that are changing or more variables brought into the picture, it becomes more overwhelming. And everybody has a capacity limit of how much our brains can process. Our nervous system is constantly absorbing information from around us, including listening to what our partners say and feeling into the space that we're in.
Mel: And that's all informing our brain about. Are we safe? And are we safe? Not just in this moment, but do we have a sense that we have continued stability then? Oh my God, do we need to do something to make that stability happen for us? And a lot of that crisis that anxiety I think comes about from like, we're trying to figure out how can I create that stability in the midst of all the stuff that is changing and feels overwhelming.
Libby: Yeah. That's what I was thinking. When you were saying that, I was thinking just me imagining what it's been like, cause I've gone through multiple things all happening at one, I'm a parent of two young kids. I have multiple partners. Sometimes there's a family crisis, like with one of our family members or housing or, I mean, Lord knows with the pandemic I'm sure a lot of people have run into issues where what was sustainable for them neurologically like in their nervous system, they could handle a certain amount and then something comes in on top and suddenly, I mean, really what it looks like, I think sometimes is you can't get out of your fight or flight.
Libby: You cannot find your way. You know, I have that whole episode on taming your wish you actually can't tame it. You cannot calm it down enough. You can't get that, the part of your brain that's on fire to just calm down enough to get your feet under you. Maybe even, not even have any sort of rational conversation about some deeper stuff or some longer-term stuff and getting kind of more into your more nuanced type conversations. I hear this kind of like it's either this partner or this partner, you know, that kind of that black and white thinking zero, some thinking that comes from our part of ourselves where we're seeking safety and it really is life or death fight or flight, them or me. So I think that sounds right to me that the relationship might feel like the thing that you can control.
Libby: It's the variable. And I can imagine with just pandemic stuff piled on top of this like the listener didn't mention that as a factor, but it's a factor. I mean, it just piles on. And yet of course then there's the flip side of this, you know, this other relationship that this partner has, I hear them saying, you know, I wanna be able to be fair to my other partner, my other relationship, and to myself, you know, and what came to me when this listener said that was, I was like, well, I hope they don't go Googling about what to do.
Mel: Yeah. I think the typical advice that we hear for that is the dismissal of the trauma people make these demands for control, but they're actually just strategies for safety. But I think the internet advice doesn't see it that way.
Libby: No, they just see it as old monogamy thinking. I mean, control isn't a good thing to do as a route to safety. I think it doesn't work, but it's a strategy that usually comes from somewhere and there's a reason why people are using it. And it's something maybe that they learned or something that used to work for them in the past. And it works in a patriarchal framework. Right. That's a big way we find safety.
Mel: Yeah, and it definitely works in a patriarchal monogamous framework. The very heteronormative gendered dynamic that so many of us have grown up with. And this is the thing when we are in a state of crisis, all of that old patterning is going to come back, come rushing back. It comes rushing back, gets controlling you, it's kind of dominating the field because it's so deeply ingrained and it takes some work to kind of separate, okay. What is this old story that I was told of how I'm going to find safety and stability in my relationship versus what's actually going on here?
Libby: Yeah, I think about that. And I think in some cases we become a kid version of ourselves. Is a thing that happens. You know, we go back to old, old, old strategies when we're in crisis. And I'm thinking about actually when, when I had first, that felt like a crisis to me, it was very disorienting. It was very stressful. Suddenly I had this tiny human that I was responsible for. And he was also a very sensitive baby. He was not an easygoing baby. He cried a lot. And really there were a lot of things he just did not like, and he didn't have difficulty feeding exactly. Like, get really bad gas. And I was so wanting to do everything perfectly. And so I was really stressed out for the first several weeks.
Libby: And I remember having a lot of hard times in some family relationships that were trying to support me, you know, trying to help me. I did. I remember thinking, I felt like I had regressed back to an older version of myself that I thought I had upgraded. You know, I thought I had really moved past some of these strategies and ways of being, but then I felt just kicked right back into old insecurities. Yeah. Old fears, really old stuff, just coming, rushing up at me. I can relate to that experience. Luckily, you know, know that's like a, considered a valid crisis that deserves support, you know, but someone's struggling with the destabilizing feelings that come with their partner being in love with someone else. Yeah. I feel like the internet advice or certain books that we shall not mention advice is kind of go do your own, work on yourself and go figure yourself out. I'm not gonna slow anything down for you.
Mel: And that's not a trauma-informed approach, you know? And it's unfortunate that we've gotten to this space in the polyamory and consensual non-monogamy community, where there is a lot of, well, that's your thing to deal with. You have to go figure it out. And there isn't enough compassion and space holding. And very often when one person in a relationship is experiencing a crisis, there is a ripple effect of that. And everyone's stuff can come up. I mean, I see it all the time in my coaching practice where. You know, not just one partner has their own past trauma.
Mel: It may not even have anything to do with the current. But it's from the past because we all carry trauma. We've all had pain stories in our relationships. They're different stories. We've coped with them in different ways. We're all in different places of healing with them, but we've all got them. And the minute they get activated, we react from that space. And that has a tendency to take our partners into their own pain body and reactive space. And I've had situations where it's like three or more partners who are all in that pain body and trying to figure out how to navigate through the wild and storm and chaos that's coming up. And if you are in a situation like that, and everyone's like, well, you just gotta have to go deal with your own thing. And I'll just deal with my thing. Then we're not actually relating anymore.
Libby: No. Well, and I think the thing you just said there about someone else's stuff, bringing up your stuff. What I think about there is if one person's strategy to deal with their crisis is to reach for control. That act alone can trigger the other person's I don't wanna be controlled response. We end up with a lot of pairings like this, or a lot of ecosystems like this, where one person is a pursuer, a controller and intrusive, and the other person is back off, run away, leave me alone. You know, we can use attachment language here. One person might be more anxious, Preoccupied. One person might be more avoidant. Although I think that I like using the language of boundaries more than attachment styles myself. That can cause like you said, a ripple effect, one person's having a crisis. And then when they're in their worst place that triggers you in your worst place. And then everybody said all in there, stress response and they're amplifying each other.
Mel: And when we go back into that, like you're saying that older version of ourselves or that child version of ourselves, I mean, what does a child need when they are in crisis? When your child is overwhelmed and stressed out, what they need is loving attention. They need to know that it's gonna be okay. They need to know that they're still safe and they're gonna get through it. And that's one of the most important things we can support. And I think it's really hard to do that when multiple people are experiencing the trauma activation and that cyclical process that we can get into, which for me is why it's so important to take a trauma-informed approach to relating. And a big piece of that for me is, you know, when we take a trauma-informed approach, we're not just looking at how do I have compassion and hold space or the trauma that you already have. It's also, how do I not create new trauma? Yes. And how do I support you in integrating and coming into a good relationship again, when there is trauma that comes up for you?
Libby: Well, yeah. What I think is really a cool opportunity with having a moment like that, a moment of crisis, where you feel very unsafe and where, you know, maybe you're feeling destabilized, but you do have a loving partner who is committed to trying to see things through to the other side. Is that it can actually be a healing opportunity. Cause a lot of times, like you said, it's an old story that's coming up, but I'm starting to rewrite it in this new experience. Yeah. And what if we can change the ending?
Mel: Because every time that our brain remembers a memory, we do get to rewrite it into our memory circuit. And so whenever we have an experience that is similar, we can rewrite the responses by having positive outcomes really important for that I think is slowing down. And that goes back to this experience of overwhelm. And I think when things are overwhelming, our brain just starts running faster and faster, trying to catch up and, and is trying to like look at all these different pieces and figure out, you know, which way is up. And if we slow down, it makes it easier to do that. I think about the value of breaking things down into smaller conversations. And looking at things one piece at a time. I mean something that I do for myself and I encourage my clients to do it. If it's something that works for them is to make lists and make notes, name the things that are going on, name your trauma responses, give them a name, name the topics that trigger them, but also name like this is the situation that's going on. And pinpointing is it about my relationship with my partner? Is it about my relationship with my metamour? Is it about my relationship with myself?
Libby: Yeah. And I think piggybacking on that naming, what are the old stories that are coming up? Who does my metamour remind me of what am I reliving through that experience? Or what am I reliving through a thing that you said that reminded me of a thing that was told to me like five years ago? Or what have you like if you can name those old stories too, that are coming up for you from personal experience, it doesn't necessarily help you magically go, aha. Well, this isn't really happening. Then it's just my old trauma. You don't stop having that body feeling of that happening to you again, cuz your nervous system is predicting. It's very interesting. I'm reading this book right now on the brain and the thrust of the book is how our brain is a predicting brain.
Libby: And so our brain keeps us alive and, and maintains its efficiency by looking at what's happening and then predicting what's gonna happen next. And so when we're seeing this looks like what has happened before our brain is already predicting and anticipating the ending being the same. And it is, it takes a shift in you actually to make the ending be different. And in order to do that, I think you're right. You have to slow down because the part of our brain that predicts is already two steps ahead, you know? Yeah. It's moving fast. So bringing it back down. Another thing I like to do in addition to making lists, I think that's a good one, but I also like to just check in with myself regularly at random times throughout the day, just being like what's going on in there right now.
Libby: What's my body doing. And really, because I do think it's such a body thing. It doesn't necessarily think in words. It more, I think the stuff that comes up when it's trauma is usually sensations or pictures, maybe some kind of scenario playing out in a movie script or something, you know, but like being able to go, what is actually physically happening to me right now and then taking that you've made and what are the stories that are happening? What are the things that are coming up for me right now? And then is there one thing that I need that I could ask for, or I could give myself, or one thing that I could do to resource myself right now.
Mel: Yeah. I love that. Cuz you know, we're getting into what's the core in the yeah. And I think the more we become aware of the specific things that take us into a state of overwhelm that activates us, that bring up all those old traumas. I think it gives us more resources to pull on in terms of, oh, you know, if I have my, partner's got this new relationship going on, and there's all this other stuff and it's bringing up my abandonment trauma, then maybe the core need underneath that is I need to know that I am still secure and loved in this relationship. And then we can brainstorm in our relationship about all of the myriad ways that we can do that. So it doesn't necessarily need to look like I needed to put the breaks on your other relationship. That's just one possible strategy. It could also look like I need you to spend more time with me or maybe can we do something to experience our connection together while you're also engaging in this other relationship. So I think when we get to the core needs that are underlying everything, so many more possibilities open up and that's a place where we can engage in connection in our relationships.
Mel: So again, that's turning around that script of like, oh, it's your thing. You have to just go deal with it. As partners, we can participate in supporting our loved ones who are going through crisis. And we don't have to do that at a point where we go beyond our capacity. We wanna leave behind the story. That martyrdom is a love language. Cause it's not. And we need to know our capacity, but we can still work with our capacity to engage and meet our partners where they're at.
Libby: I love that you say that about honoring your capacity. I think that's so important because I think sometimes when there's a crisis, like capital C crisis and someone saying they're in crisis and they're using words like I need this, which I'm not gonna say that they don't then I think it can sometimes go all upon particularly romantic partners to say, I have to meet that need or I'm a bad partner.
Mel: We go beyond our capacity in that kinda scenario. And it kind of has this feeling of codling.
Libby: Well, and it feels compulsory too. So don't, it doesn't feel loving. It feels like you're made to do it. It feels like you're being forced. And then that kind of goes back to that feeling of even if I'm trying to give you care, I still feel controlled.
Mel: Yeah. And then that gives resentment.
Libby: Yeah, exactly. So it's so I think it's so important to have a language of requests. I think this is the thing that people have a really hard time with actually, when a crisis is coming up is I have a need. And so the answer no is not an okay answer. And I can't actually ask in such a way that no is a possibility or that there's a negotiation that might happen in there. And that can really trip you up. I think, because then if they feel like they can't state their need and the person's gonna say, well, then that's controlling me. So no. And then the person doesn't feel like that there's a lot of shame about needing anything or asking for anything. And what I always say is you get to ask for whatever you want. You do, you can ask for anything. You might hear a no. And it's really important that the person who is trying to help their partner, trying to give them comfort, love, whatever might say that ask might not be the thing I can do. And then if you slow down, you might be able to strategize an alternative. Maybe it's not, I'm gonna break up with my other partner or throttle back that relationship, but no, doesn't have to be the end of the story.
Mel: What you're describing makes me think of resilience. This is one of the pieces that I think we overlook too often when we're looking how do I give space for a partner who's in crisis? And when we experience overwhelming our nervous system, there is this strong desire to return to safety and that's important, right? We need to have that ground, a space of safety, and that inner experience so that our body knows that we're safe. However, at the same time, we need to stretch our edges because we need to go into that area of growth. And we need that safety to support ourselves going into that space of growth. If we try to grow and we don't have that resourcing of safety, then we're just gonna get overwhelmed again. And we're gonna end up with new trauma, which is not what we wanna do. We need to make sure that we have the resources, the internal and external resources so that we can go to those edgy places. Because I think when we lure those edgy places and learn that we can go there and still come back into an inner experience of safety, that's when our cap, our own capacity grows. And that's where some of the healing begins to happen.
Libby: Yeah. And I think that nobody really wants their story to be, I couldn't handle this thing. And therefore I had to shut everything thing down and control everything. Like I think that there's a part of you that wants that, but I think there's always another part of you that really does want that growth and that resilience and want a different ending to the story than either I won and I canceled my partners or the relationship or I lost. And now I'm just stuck, dangling on the end of a rope all by myself struggling. So what have you seen that works really well to both create that safety and that stretch?
Mel: Mm. I mean, this definitely is something that involves all parties working together to figure out what do we have the capacity for? And I think that question of capacity is super important of what do you have the capacity for? Where's your wiggle room? Like I think about it in terms of there's things that I want. There's also things I'm willing to do. And those things that I'm willing to do, don't take me outside of my capacity. Maybe there's even things that I can do if it's for a short period of time. There's a time limit to it. And this is a lovely strategy to titrate an experience. It goes back to that. Let's slow it down. So can you titrate an experience, do a time-limited experiment of, let's try this for X amount of time. Let's give it this much space and see.
Libby: And tinkering and experimenting too. Yeah. Like I like that too. It's like, let's try this, and then let's have some feedback about it.
Mel: And that's one of the things that really helps our nervous system to feel that we're seen and heard is when we have those spaces for feedback, I think in patriarchal monogamy world, we don't build in those check-in points as much. It's very easy to just autopilot through a lot of conflict when it's just you. And one other person, the moment a third party arrives, whether that's kids or a new partner or a puppy, whatever like it's going to bring up more of the conflict. It's gonna bring that to the surface. So building in check-in points times where you can come together and talk about how are you feeling and being able to pull out, you know, is this about your relationship with yourself? Is this about your relationship with the whole world? Is this about your relationship with me? What are you feeling? And where are those feelings coming from? I think is a really good starting point. And then from there we can build in the, okay, let's titrate this experience, let's break things down into smaller conversations. Let's create some timeframes around things and let's have a feedback process as we go so that we can shift things if things need to shift. And, and I think knowing that things can shift helps that nervous system respond and go, okay, I, I'm not gonna be ignored here. I'm gonna be heard. There is a chance for me to have my voice.
Libby: Yeah. I think a thing that I'll add that the resilience thing is, and this is a little controversial, not everybody's gonna like this one, but this is something that has actually served me to think about, which is, for the most part, that feeling of safety or unsafety, isn't really a feeling of safety or unsafety at the end of the day. Even if our partner leaves us for most people, that's not actually compromising their safety. It's painful to be left. It's painful to lose your relationship. It can be disorienting and further overwhelming and contributes to feelings of unworthiness. But it's survivable as well. Yeah, I think, and, and I would even go so far as to even say, if you have a significant financial interest wrapped up in the relationship and you lose that, that can be even more scary. But I think that it's still generally survivable for the most part, presuming here that this is a non-abusive relationship at the core, and this is a, you know, there's not financial exploitation and things going on around or there's, and there's not dependencies built into it.
Libby: That really, I mean, like if someone had like a, a real disability and there was a real dependency there, that would be a different story. But in general, I find that being left is survivable. A fundamental change to the relationship while something that will cause grief and pain is survivable. And one of my favorite teachers, Terry Real has to say that only children can be abandoned. That adults don't get abandoned adults get left. Cause I think sometimes when we're acting out, I wanna be safe zone. We're really trying to avoid the worst-case scenario from possibly happening. Yeah. And I think when we face that worst-case scenario as a healthy adult and say, you know, if that happened, here's how I would find safety within that. I think that can really be part of that internal resource. Cause you're not getting that right. That's something you can only do for yourself is to say if the worst-case scenario happened, here's how I would take care of myself. Here's how I would still grow as a person through this. And it can be really hard to reorient because of the way again, monogamy encourages us to have this codependence with each other.
Mel: I was just gonna say, I mean, I love what you're, what you're describing because patriarchal monogamy says you get your secure attachment needs met through an exclusive romantic relationship with a single person. And even when we're exploring non-monogamy, that is so drilled into us, that our nervous system is responding to that story. And that the potential abandonment of a partner triggers the possible abandonment of or actual lift abandonment of a parent or caregiver. So that's why it takes us into that deep place. But we need to recognize that that idea of limited secure attachment that a lot of attachment theory is based on comes from Western culture and outside of Western culture, human beings are collectivists. We do not raise our children in isolated families. Children were raised in community with extended family and extended networks of relationships. And so that's what we're wired for. Whether you go about getting that secure attachment network through a family of origin or group many polyamorous partners or an extension. Chosen family, that doesn't really matter. What matters is that you have the extended network of secure attachment relationships so that you are not putting all your eggs in one basket, so to speak. And I think that's one of the biggest pieces when people are journeying out of monogamy is to realize that, yes, I can love this person and have so much trust and safety here. And my inner experience of safety does not a hundred percent depend on this person being in my life. Yes. That I have agency over creating my experience and I can make choices to shift and to grow and to nurture other connections that can support me as well.
Libby: I love that. I love how you brought in our very ATIC Western model of family and romantic love and even parenting. I think that is so on the money. One of the reasons why I don't really love attachment theory at all, I think secure attachment is something our brains want, but I think the way that attachment theory tells us to get it is not correct but what this does tells really nicely into is also what the hinge partner can do. Because again, if we're caught in this sort of all or nothing, thinking of either, I let my partner’s mental health crisis control my other relationship and what I do or I say, Hey, that's your problem to deal with. Instead, what I see in there is, again, there's a collaboration opportunity with all parties involved. It kind of is a little bit more incumbent on the hidden to probably facilitate more, I think.
Libby: But the other thing that I think can really be beneficial is to do what you can to empower the person who's having the crisis and empowerment can look so many different ways. That empowerment is very much not telling someone what they need to do or going and getting the resources for them. Even sometimes a lot of times empowerment is really reminding them of their strength, giving them opportunities to succeed, acknowledging efforts that are being made, things like that, which is different than codling, right? It's not something them up and telling them lies and reassuring them when maybe you don't feel social, you know? Cause that might be a thing that you're feeling is I don't feel so sure about this relationship right now. I'm not so sure we can make it don't lie then but you can still empower your partner to know what is true.
Libby: And to find what is true within them. And then also there's a certain amount of letting go that needs to happen in internally within you and Mel, you and I took that really wonderful course on boundaries. And when I think of boundaries in this case, I think of the psychological boundary of this person gets to have their own experience. And they may be having a tough time and I can help them and support them in one of the best ways to resource myself to do that is to say that their experience belongs to them and I'm not gonna try to control it and I'm not gonna try to own it and I'm not gonna make myself responsible for it. So I'm prepared for them to not like everything I do. And that doesn't mean that I'm doing anything wrong and I'm prepared for them to ask me for things I might have to say no to. And that doesn't mean that they're, you know, putting, you know, things upon me. And from that place, like having really solid internal boundaries of not taking so much responsibility, it actually gives you more room, I think, to be loving and compassionate and empowering from a more honest place. Well, I think we're out of time. Is there, do you want to say though, before we wrap up?
Mel: I think the bottom line here for me is about how do you support everyone in a situation like this with compassion and doing so with honoring individual capacity. And I think that's a delicate dance. I would love to say that we could just wave a magic wand and make everything better and have a very simple, straightforward solution. But when it comes to non-monogamy and the complexities that are just inherent to non-monogamy the solutions often have similar complexity to them. And I think it's really powerful to step into a space of humility with, okay, there's all these skills that monogamy never taught me. And now we get to learn those skills together. As we explore whatever the relationship is gonna become. I'm just feeling a lot of empathy and compassion for the people who are in this situation, your listener and their partners, because I've certainly been in similar situations myself and I've seen others in similar kinds of situations. And I think the more loving care we can all show people in those kinds of situations, the more capacity there is to be able to just slow down and explore. And it's okay if it's messy. Right?
Libby: Yeah. And I think the thing I'll say about that, that I really love about what you said is I feel like compassion is also a really good power equalizer. You know, cause that's one of the, we didn't get to talk about it to, but that's one of the other problems with a situation like this is power dynamics that can crop up in all the different relationships configurations. Right. And when you say, Hey, we're all worthy here. We all matter. And we all are worthy of compassion and care for our situation, compassion doesn't determine who wins it, who loses or who gets their way or anything like that. Compassion just says all needs matter here. I think that's a wonderful way to proceed. And I think you're right. It does mean that you have to proceed slowly. So that everybody gets a dose of that compassion. I feel like we could talk about this for another hour, but I do want to honor our time and thank you Mel so much for being here. I always enjoy talking to you and hearing your thoughts and wisdom.
Mel: Thank you so much. It's been a delight to be here and I do love getting to explore these kinds of specific situations and pulling apart all the different factors and yeah. Well, I would love to have you back. Where can people find you on the internet if they would like to know more about you on Instagram and Facebook, you can find me at Radical Relating. My website is radicalrelationshipcoaching.ca because I am in Canada and you can also find my monogamy detox course @monogamydetox.com. Wonderful. Well, thank you, Mel.
I also approach things with a trauma-informed ecological lens, meaning we're all in this together. We're all connected and everybody matters.
